to work with. The CorBon DPX is too hot (in my opinion) for self defense in a small home where if you shoot thru wall A, you hit your son, and if you shoot thru wall B, well theres you daughter. Black Talon, though innovative and groundbreaking back in the day, is nearly 25 years old. Suspects[edit] Anything on that list should do the trick. The Hornady TAP isnt a bad round either but I still lean towards Federal ammunition, the Hydra-Shock Deep is a good round as well. On impact, the material is forced into engineered internal fissures to start the expansion process. The first shooting which brought critical media attention to Black Talon was by Gian Luigi Ferri, who used Black Talon and other ammunition to shoot 15 people at a San Francisco law office in 1993; nine of whom died (the 101 California Street shootings). A jury of your peers, and not a knowledgeable jury with respect to ammunition, will hear those words He loaded those Cop Killer Bullets into his gun and just waited for the chance to use them. Your claim of Self-Defense now becomes premeditated murder! For the prestige of having and carrying the bullets that rip apart the insides after passing through a bulletproof vest instead you have become the evil gun owner. They never worry about what holster to buy as they have no intention of ever carrying that thing. It is as if they are just going through the motions, putting a check in a box on some fanciful list somewhere: Go to the store and get bread, eggs, paint the garage, buy a gun, wash the car . I have personally used Black Talon ammo in a 40 Cal Glock and can tell you first hand that it lacks important penetration on impact. PDX-1 looks the same on expansion as the BT, except now the claws are filled in with lead because PDX-1 is a bonded bullet, which is a superior design to the non-bonded BT. I need a bunch of those!! They tend to kinda lose interest in doing anything else than try to breath after that. We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. I own a lot of the DPX and EDC it, but those magazines dont go aanywhere near my nightstand. If so how much do you want for them? The most interesting thing about Black Talon rounds is that they are still used today by ######. At the end of a nearly five-minute shootout and over 140 rounds fired, five FBI agents were wounded and two (Jerry Dove and Benjamin Grogan) were killed. It cuts through the organs of a human being.[18]. Required fields are marked *. At the time, Winchesters Black Talon was one of, if not the most effective self-defense round you could buy. John; The first round missed, hitting the back of the front seat. Supposedly, he loaded his handgun with Black Talon. 24 years ago, Black Talon ammo hit the dealers shelves with a advertising blitz on the part of Winchester. This is despite their ubiquitous nature and the fact that many police departments and gun owners trust and rely on hollow points for self-defense. 4/12/2023. Please be respectful of others. Two of the agents had backup revolvers (Hanlon and Risner) and both would use them at some point during the fight. It has to be just as sharp and just as prepared. Black Talon and Today's Best Self-Defense Ammo For 9mm or .45 ACP, try Hornady Critical Duty. Firearms Trivia - Winchester Black Talon Ammunition. Mireles does not remember this happening. I have 2 full boxes that I would gladly sell. Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. The federal ban on armor-piercing pistol ammunition uses only the composition of the bullet's core to determine legality. The publicity around the shooting led to some jurisdictions restricting the use of Black Talon bullets, but they were not banned outright. Even today as I re-stock my armory of weapons I do so based on the events of that day. Its a handgun round that took on a mythology of its own. Review: Hi-Point JXP 10mm An Overgrown Yeet Canon Thats a Lot of Fun! Black Talon Ammo - Hand-Tools.com This creates a wider wound channel. Winchester stopped producing the Black Talon round in 2000, and that kind of fed into its mythology and mystique. Even now, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive round and search for its modern day equivalent. My love of sharp things extends to all kinds of edged weapons, be they small, large or on a stick. .357 Mag 180gr Winchester Black Talons | Defensive Carry And 9mm blowing lungs out. Sign In Why Join As a Dealer Dealer Login. One round hit McNeill in the neck, causing him to collapse and leaving him paralyzed for several hours. [7][8][9] Some medical personnel were concerned that the sharp barb-like tips could potentially cause tears in the surgical gloves and hands of the medical workers, exposing them to greater risk of infection,[2] however there are no documented reports of this actually happening. Grogan, however, is credited with landing the first hit of the gunfight, wounding Matix in the forearm as he leaned out of the Monte Carlo to fire the shotgun at Grogan and Dove. 20rds - 45 ACP Winchester Black Talon 230gr. HP Ammo - AmmunitionToGo.com @ CTD Suzanne: As a Federal LEA I know quite well the 1986 Miami scenario and its ramifications towards the major changes it brought in all law enforcement and the overall industry at a National perspective. Wounding effects of the Winchester Black Talon bullet - PubMed You will have so many people reading and hearing about you that you will think that you are famous or something. After only approx. What are black tipped bullets? However, sometimes the public or national media sees it as too lethal, and thats where the controversy starts. For ammunition to pass the FBI Test Protocol, it must meet a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin, but no more than 18 inches. They have taken your home, your job, your savings, your family, and even your friends from you. Resembling the larger, more heavily armed Terminus-class destroyer, the Gage-class transport traded the destroyer's numerous turbolaser banks for cargo space and troop barracks. "These are bullets that are strictly used to maim and kill". Problem here is that in the LE business the females cannot qualify with the 10MM I would think. Black Talon can comfortably replace Izanagi in Night Falls. [12] The car had come to a stop against a parked vehicle, and Platt had to climb across the hood of this vehicle, an Oldsmobile Cutlass. Thanks Suzanne. In 2009, Winchester-Olin released a new hollow point bullet in its Supreme Elite line of handgun ammunition called the Bonded PDX1. Below is our list of the top most controversial brands or types of handgun rounds. The reverse taper refers to the bullets jacket being thicker at the tip than at the base. They actually became friends in the Army. Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. [1] Black Talon ammunition was produced in the following calibers: 9mm Luger, 10mm Auto, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .308 Winchester, .338 Winchester Magnum, and .30-06 Springfield. 357 black talon ammo for sale and auction. Previously only offered to law enforcement, Speer Gold Dot G2 offers the ultimate performance for self-defense thanks to an exclusive nose design. Stay Tuned to the RE Factor Tactical Blog and be part of this all VETERAN-run website. *Lighting a path to truth* Former Navy JAG Worldwide U.S. Military Defense. I believe that strong 10mm ammo (not the watered down stuff) can solve this problem. Winchester pulled it in 1993 and permanently discontinued the ammo in 2000. Get the latest Offers, Outdoor News, Stories, and Reviews delivered to your inbox. 223 rounds. [11] McNeill was then shot in the hand and, due to his wound and blood in his revolvers chambers, could not reload.[8]. The 10mms travel at 1600fps with 767fp of muzzle energy, the .357 Sigs travel at 1550fps at 614fps muzzel energy. My hat is off to you. Our Honest Review, How To Buy Guns Online: Armslist Firearms Marketplace, Best EDC Medical Kit Buyers Guide [2023], Best 9mm Competition Pistol: Faxon FX19 Hellfire. Talon Defense | Laatuasunnot-The black talon round ddi not fail what failed was you used a handgun and the average human can take many hand gun rounds before stopping. I still have 10mm Black Talons for my Glock 20 (Gen 1) and S&W model 1006. You must become a subscriber or login to view or post comments on this article. Hollow Point Ammo. A 3.5 Kahr failed to expand a round from the same box, and the bullet behaved like ball ammo. To the comment that the Black Talon did not fail you would be incorrect. Black Talon | Military Wiki | Fandom Even if the attacker is only disoriented and not completely down, you have an immediate advantage. Most completely ignore the second considerationhydrostatic or hydraulic shock. In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. The Black Talons petals look more like well talons, essentially making the wound channel even wider. And no, these rounds were not armor-piercing, despite what urban legend says. The third hit Matix in the face, and fragmented in two, with neither piece causing a serious wound. 12 Reasons Why Black Talon Is The BEST Exotic In Season Of The - Reddit Washington Takes Oppression of Gun Owners to New Lows, Finding a Firearm: My Wifes First Pistol, Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Cant Live Without. Ive seen enough well-practiced shooters fail in a simulator to validate this (at least for me). SIG's standout defensive handgun load is the Elite Performance blend with V-Crown bullet, available in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, as well as others. The Ranger SXT ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. After that shooting I never took anything for granted again. Glock 19 HST 124 +P / Critical Duty 135 gr +P Destiny 2 Black Talon Exotic Sword - How to Obtain Ronald Risner: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, 14 rounds fired, S&W Model 60 .38 Special revolver, one round .38 Special +P fired. The Black Talon and other high-performance ammunition combine a hollow point, which enables the bullet to expand upon impact, and notched configurations, which direct the expansion into a sharp . If the round carries enough energy into the hit area (say, the lower side torso for example) the vascular system will experience massive compression leading to burst blood vessels in the brain. Put it head to head with the Federal HST 124 grain in ballistic gel and against a Kevlar bulletproof panel!. Winchester Black Talon 9mm 147gr Sxt Ammo 2 Full Boxes (40 Rounds Speer Gold Dot is a .45ACP that will give some kind of decent expansion in short barrels, even with 230-grain loads. 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The FBI agents had loaded jacketed hollow point bullets into their .357 Magnum revolvers. AgDaily, OutdoorHub All Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors. I met Mr. Mireles after his recovery. Consider if you will, actually using the Black Talon or its equivalent. The resulting cartridge, the Black Talon bullet offers a low-velocity missile that retains its weight, penetrates even when interrupted by intervening objects, and remains capable of expansion in soft tissue. The cartridge provided additional ammunition (so to speak) for gun control advocates to rally against civilian gun ownership while other critics focused on the Black Talon name. Black Talon, a type of expanding, hollow-point ammunition also vilified in the early 1990s as "cop-killer bullets". [8] At an unknown time, Matix had regained consciousness and he joined Platt in the car, entering via the passenger door. Rapidly expanding projectiles help to ensure that all of the energy able to be summoned up by a pistol caliber will remain in its primary target. I choose to carry Ranger/Ranger+p+.when I carry 9mm. This enhances rigidity which allows the sharp "talons" to remain perpendicular to the wound path. Before that Matix had already served in the Marines, then went Army. Expansion in gelatin blocks starts within 1/2-1 of entry and leaves a approx. After all, it is nothing more than slightly modernized Black Talon ammo, but with a market friendly sounding name. In a shootout with two bank robbersWilliam Matix and Michael Platteight FBI agents, mainly armed with .357 Magnum revolvers loaded with .38 Special went up against Matix and Platt armed with .223 Remington rifles and shotguns. Firearms Trivia - Winchester Black Talon Ammunition If you were wearing a protective vest the best bullet you want to hit by is an expanding bullet so the material in the vest absorbs the energy. The bullet penetrated Platts right upper arm, exited below the armpit and entered his torso, stopping below his shoulder blade. Luckily, 10mm handguns were new and not many shooters had them. As a result, its seen many uses in PVP and certain PVE situations. The real truth is that you will be in-famous. Its Winchester ra9b, the b is for bonded, made for the feds. In addition, some recommend the Federal HST. Remington will never tell you this, but those in the know say Remingtons Golden Saber has petals designed to expand the same way as Black Talon. [10], Colin Ferguson used Black Talon ammunition for his Ruger P89 919mm pistol during a 1993 shooting incident. In all actuality, it was a special black coating with the purpose of preserving barrel life. Richard Manauzzi: lost control of weapon in the initial vehicle collision, no shots fired. points to a box of the Cop Killer bullets that you used. I went to carrying a 40 cal Sig plus a backup and even 2 shotguns in my unit. Most of the rounds below can be found in multiple calibers, including the ever-popular 9x19mm and .45 ACP. [24], The shootout involved ten people: two suspects and eight FBI agents. Winchester Black Talon Bullets: Modern-Day Equivalents [10] McNeill returned fire with six shots from his revolver, hitting Matix with two rounds in the head and neck. And the Golden Sabers that I fired did NOT have any pointed jacket petals; they were of a blunt shape. This ammo was not only controversial, some called it downright offensive. I really like Hornady ammunition but like several that I know along with others that have commented having the same results with Hornady Critical Duty/Defense not expanding as it should, have switched to Federal HST rounds for EDC. If you compress the blood vessels in the body enough, the blood ruptures vessels at the weakest point. But affecting vital structure is what causes an interruption in aggression. The round is a traditional hollow point design, but with a reverse taper. Black Talon - Wikipedia Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. standards for velocity, penetration, and accuracy, they also coat each projectile with a special ballistic paint infused with pork to make it Haraamor unclean to a radical Jihadist, the company stated in a press release in 2013. The collision knocked off Grogans glasses, and there is speculation his vision was so bad that he was unable to see clearly enough to be effective. A great go-to self-defense round in any caliber is the Speer Gold Dot. Both of these are non-bonded, so they both have some jacket separation at the nose. 50rds - 45 ACP Winchester Ranger Talon 230gr. +P HP Ammo Of the eight agents at the scene, two had Ithaca Model 37 shotguns in their vehicles (McNeill and Mireles), three were armed with semi-automatic Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistols (Dove, Grogan, and Risner), and the rest were armed with Smith & Wesson revolvers. Winchester got burned by its own marketing hype on Black Talon, when criminal misuse of the product fueled media hysterics over bullets that deploy flesh-ripping claws. As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Doves 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. In the end, Winchester decided to discontinue the pistol caliber line in 1993, and the entire line completely in 2000. Praesidus brings homage to the military watch tradition. 366 (S.D.N.Y., 1996)) claiming that Olin Corp. should be liable for the shooting spree based on the design, manufacture, marketing, and sale of Black Talon ammunition. Shooting a .357 black talon at some ballistics gel. Some say that SXT stands for the same exact thing. If you are desperate to get your hands on the original Black Talon, you can find it online, but at a jacked up price. Gun #: 963524304 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $219.99 Full Details 1 Image (s) Radian Talon Safety Selector - 4-lever Black For Ar15 Gun #: 969752348 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $93.49 Full Details Think a little bit harder/smarter. For a round very similar to the old Black Talon, check out the Winchester Ranger series or the PDX1though both are difficult to find. I packed up my gear and left. Risner and Orrantia, observing from the other side of the street, stated that they did not see Platt leave the car and fire at Mireles. The Black Talon Story | Springfield Armory Forums Despite being riddled with bullet holes from the FBI agents, Platt was able to continue firing back. Past works have been authored to cover only the major talking points in your article, and were forced to do so only as distinctly separate stories due to the sheer volume of information involved; however, you managed to blend the entire history of each topic into one very well written article that is somehow brief, yet able to maintain excellent continuity without missing any of the most important facts. [3] Though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax, the ammo has an unusual black appearance compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. Hanlon lost his .357 Magnum service revolver during the initial collision, though he was still able to fight with his Smith & Wesson Model 36 backup gun. The Infamous 9mm Black Talon! - YouTube So, the point is, a shooter in a high stress defensive situation may not hit well, so any hit needs to count. All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. Matix was apparently knocked unconscious by the hits and fired no more rounds. I am currently waiting on the 40 S&W round to come out. A fictionalized version of the Black Talon bullet called the "Black Death" is utilized by Hank Schrader to kill Marco Salamanca in the Breaking Bad episode "One Minute". Another popular characteristic of Black Talon ammo is a coating known as Lubalox that is applied . Nowadays, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive handgun round. William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. . A large mechanical jacket-to-core InterLock band works to keep the bullet and core from separating for maximum weight retention, while the Flex Tip eliminates clogging and aids bullet expansion. The Black Talon is an interesting and entertaining exotic sword in Destiny 2. 2023 The SOFREP Media Group. Black Talons | USA Carry - Concealed Carry Forum This "reverse taper" refers to the bullet's jacket being thicker at the tip than toward the base, enhancing rigidity which allows the sharp petals to remain largely perpendicular to the wound path, unlike traditional designs where the expanding jacket petals would peel back almost completely behind the expanded lead mushroom. With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. [8][25], Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. Why ? Thats why Federal HST is the duty load of choice for law enforcement officers throughout the world. The wider wound channel makes the round more likely to stop a threatsomething usually referred to as knockdown powerwhen compared to other hollow point rounds. Glock 21 Hornady XTP 230 gr +P / Ranger 230 +P. I bought them before they were not so infamous. Trust me, those friends have no intention of visiting you in prison. Mostly because they are 25 years old and other companies are reproducing them under different name for as low as $18. John Hall, the FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy "an ammo failure". Advanced The 230gr JHP manufactured by HOP Munitions results in a slightly slower FPS of 876 FPS but offers a greater downrange energy of 392 ft/lbs. [15] It is similar to the Ranger SXT series and the older Black Talon design in its structure, and is available in several calibers and loadings. With robust designs and vintage classic style, discover the heritage of military timepieces today! America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, Black Talon and Todays Best Self-Defense Ammo, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window). John Hanlon: Smith & Wesson Model 36 .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel, five rounds .38 Special +P fired. This ammunition line was renamed Fail Safe. Newsletter Signup Home Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition (BP1075) Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition (BP1075) Problem with the short bbl. Black Talon Ballistic Gel Test ** 45 ACP & 10mm ** The Wound Channel 58.4K subscribers Subscribe 246K views 8 years ago I was fortunate enough to have a viewer send me some Black Talon. Wonderful !!! The core is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance. I second and add my own thumbs up to G-Mans comments in praise of this article by Suzanne. Glock 26 Hornady Critical Defense / Gold dot 115 gr / Barnes TAC 115 +P With great BC, excellent expansion values, and very high weight retention, these solid copper pills serve across the spectrum of rifle and pistol platforms and their associated libary of targets requirments. McCarthy v. Sturm, Ruger and Co., Inc., 916 F.Supp. The most obvious difference from the SXT is that the bonded design, meant to maintain structural integrity through difficult intermediate barriers like auto-glass, largely prevents the sharp petals from peeling away from the lead core and fully protruding into the wound track.
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