Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. claim might be true. For both individual and corporate owners, the early Cheyennes make sense as step-up purchases, as long as the combination of low price, low maintenance, and high-performance remains in vogue. has contracted with Isaacman Associates. Owner Comments My company has flown a 1983 Cheyenne I for two years now and we have over 900 hours on it. And while the first production airplane was completed a year later, the first customer delivery was not made until 1974. This is because there are more systems, including the SAS. Some people think the Cheyenne I is a better airplane because it has no SAS system. 0000014026 00000 n is to then power up to 30 percent torque against the brakes. And at 12,050 pounds MGTOW, it is approved for single-pilot operations without a type rating, although insurance companies require annual training. AM With its powerful Garrett TPE 331-14-801 turboprop powerplants and capable systems, Piper's Cheyenne 400LS operates quite comfortably at altitudes as high as 41,000 feet while achieving impressive speeds They made 620 shp, and therein lay a problem. It also was the end of production of the PA-31T series, although production was planned to be restarted in Lakeland for the IA and IIXL. of the Cheyenne series, and Piper. Start your free trial today! I hope Im going to be as wise. Standard operating procedure The fuselageis limited to a 15,000-hour life, while the wing and empennage have 20,000-hour life limits. 1984 - 1991 PIPER PA-42-1000 Cheyenne 400LS - Planephd Significant improvements were made throughout the product line in terms of maintainability, rational human factors-oriented redesign and in overall quality. The right and left furl systems are independent of each other and are connected only when a crossfeed system is activated. N3Rp '{A. rw:sr]m]6Afu {tih8d0yc13gix,H/SH\&5`X)#oGt|G&o4HqxZdA'{r nQfo4[gt)S0p1&_vyv|Wy\WZ7m e,Yp,;Fc_Mf]F>o|nGivVc'/5oW#TRx=* Some pilots referred to the narrow windshield of the Cheyenne and P Navajo as a tank slit. Today, my wife and I are the proud owners of N7222F, a 1987 PA42-1000. If you train for and respect the airplanes high performance, understand the IIs loading limitations, and look beyond the stability augmentation system brouhaha, the Cheyenne will reward you with pleasant handling, great capability, and classy ramp presence. For operators of the PA-31T, pitch instability should not be a concern if the airplane pitch system is modified to the latest specification (including the bobweight), the SAS is maintained properly, weight and balance limitations are observed and current limiting power settings and airspeeds are complied with. PA-42 Piper Cheyenne 400LS for FSX - Fly Away Simulation 0000022771 00000 n 0000261462 00000 n g,!NA4 The Piper Cheyenne 400LS is powered by two Honeywell TPE 331-14 engines with 1,000 shp each. Used Turbine Review: Cheyennes: The I, IA, II, AND IIXL 0000010000 00000 n Could we ever get our investment back at time of sale? On the other hand, one engine burns less gas, has only one prop, etc. Yet, in one the airplane was clearly out of weight and balance limits and in the other there is a suspicion that the airplane was improperly loaded. %PDF-1.2 % 0000005155 00000 n Most of the other accidents can be related to pilot action or inaction (the largest single category is landing gear up with no mechanical malfunction). Its ironic because, of all the maintenance issues, repairs and glitches that weve had in 10 years of Cheyenne ownership, the engines are about the only bits that havent required unscheduled interventions. 0000004648 00000 n be a direct competitor to the staid Beechcraft King Air 200. Tip tanks became standard. AIRFRAME Total Time: 3319 ENGINES 1719 Hrs Since Hot Sections 60 hrs remaining until 100 hr inspection PROPELLERS: Total Hours: 166 Two 1650 hp Turboprops (MT five bladed Scimitar Propellers) EXTERIOR Done in 2008 White w/Three Dark Green Stripes INTERIOR Six (6) Passenger Executive Configuration Air Conditioning: P3 Air Turbine Aft Lav However, like the archetypal nerd in an action movie, Only three ADs apply specifically to the I and none to the IIXL, although most apply to all three. This milestone has precipitated all sorts of careful calculations in my house. Aircraft of comparable role, configuration, and era. 0000002637 00000 n There is a lot to it. It uses trailer Mike and Bill are known advisors, and they arent selling me anything, so I feel at home with their advice. Ive never flown one and am not sure how I feel about taking a Malibu and bolting a PT6 on the front of an airframe designed for a 350 horsepower piston. The much-maligned SAS system gave us no trouble whatsoever after we changed the SAS vane from an earlier type with a single heater to the newer type with two electric heaters. It carries more and further and does it all for about half the cost of a comparable bizjet. It is derived directly from the popular III series but utilizes powerful TPE331 engines with four blade propellers which produce faster airspeeds than its predecessors! He stuck to his word. The problem is this: At the top of a phugoid cycle, the angle of attack is high, and the SAS pulls forward on the yoke. The tradeoff was poor dynamic stability. The PA-31T3 is a hybrid of the Navajo Chieftain (unpressurized) fuselage with the flying surfaces and engines of the Cheyenne I. Many aircraft including the 400LS were put to the wayside never to be manufactured again. Twin engine turboprop aircraft produced 1979-1993, "PA-42" redirects here. What about a jet-prop? They are a little older and definitely cheaper. ). As the power is increased, the nose wheel oleo The courses offered by outfits such as FlightSafety International and SimCom, which include extensive classroom and simulator time, are excellent for obtaining and maintaining Cheyenne proficiency. Ive talked to several experts. Believe it or not, it felt good; I felt I was being a good steward of the airplane. J. Lynn Helms became the boss that same year. 0000000016 00000 n Most can be laid to insufficient knowledge of systems, lack of proficiency, failure to use check lists and other human performance issues. ]m3IfeRCo~*k#'1LT=LzV_eWs4zSbXA? 0000012416 00000 n 0000011689 00000 n Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. 0000094577 00000 n It carries a big load in a comfortable cabin at high speeds for long distances on a miserly amount of fuel. A smaller-diameter, five-blade propeller is available via STC. The rules require that the pull be roughly proportional to the speed displacement; i.e., a 20-knot displacement from trim speed will require twice as much control pressure as a 10-knot deflection. It uses less runway, climbs and cruises faster than many pure jets. There is This engine has a reverse flow, free turbine arrangement. Electrical power is supplied by a 28 volt, direct current, negative ground electrical system. For a pilot with no turbine experience, the I or IA would be the best choice because it is the least demanding to operate. And I have invested a small fortune and an inconvenient amount of time to the replacement of all manner of gyros. aberration must have given rise to the big Cheyennes. With a fuel capacity of 570 gallons of usable fuel on tap, the 400LS can fly more than 2,000 nm at that setting. We did a hot section on schedule on the right engine almost four years ago. That's becoming the bigger problem for some of these airframes, parts availability is scarce to non-existent. Its a pretty unique airplane. Structurally, they have weathered well over the years. Cockpit organization and cockpit lighting also were improved. Piper Cheyenne Series Questions - PPRuNe Forums PIPER Cheyenne 400. the only time this limit should be in danger of being exceeded is when the The difference between the left front seat and a cabin chair can be substantial, especially if propeller-induced vibration is being transmitted from the aft fuselage). Maximum area is 22 cubic feet; load limit is 200 pounds (interior furnishings can reduce both). The Piper Cheyenne 400LS, PA-42-1000 is the final development and improvement of the venerable Cheyenne line of twin turboprop business aircraft. Reg: N7222F photos. [3] The PA-42-1000 Cheyenne IV was certified in 1984, 44 were built until 1991 and 37 remain in service in 2018. 0000093845 00000 n Pipers Cheyenne 400LS is one of those rare airplanes that has few compromises. However, this doesnt mean it is simple. @ (o$y=.d;n0 1970, the then Cessna Chairman, Dwane Wallace, bet the future of the One hundred seventy-seven flight hours from now, the engines on our 1980 Piper Cheyenne will reach TBO. It has a 98% dispatch reliability and its cabin is quieter than a King Air. There are two major branches to the design family. Of course, you need bigger props too. 0000012730 00000 n To the pilot, such an airplane will have a normal feel. As a result, the aircraft can travel more than 2,000 nm in a long-range cruise. If the altitude-hold isnt turned on or isnt functioning, we simply dont fly above 230. The previous owner of N7222F (C-FGKS) flew the aircraft from Edmonton, Canada, to Northern Virginia to show us its beauty. As per the fifth paragraph in this article, 351 KTS at 25,000 feet (or 290 KTS at 41,000 feet) on 60 gallons of Jet A/hour, and a range of 1,800-plus nm with IFR reserve. And yes, when Pratt & Whitney (now Pratt & Whitney Canada), manufacturer of the PT-6 went on strike during Beechcrafts production of the A-100 King Air, Beech made the necessary modifications to the airframe to accommodate the Garret Engine, calling it the B-100. Ultimately, the superior pressurization system in the 400LS (under 10,000 feet at flight level 410) was paramount in the decision-making process to safely conduct international and oceanic flights above most weather and busy traffic altitudes, along with 50 KTS faster speed available on demand. I do know that when Piper modified the Malibu to make the Meridian, there were substantial changes. 0000004128 00000 n On the longitudinal axis, bobweights and downsprings are the most common. less runway, climbs and cruises faster than many pure jets. Certification in the United Kingdom was not possible (and not even tried) because of pitch sensitivity and pitch force behavior and feel, which encouraged pilot-induced pitch oscillations rather than damping the tendency. Loading All three models have large capacity nose baggage compartments (a maximum of 20 cubic feet with a 300 pound load limit, depending upon the model and the type of avionics installed) and another bay in the aft fuselage. [3] It can climb directly to FL 410 at its 12,050lb (5,470kg) MTOW and typical single-pilot BOWs are 7,8507,900lb (3,5603,580kg). Belvoir Media Group, LLC. The Cheyenne 400 is that rare exception to the compromises required in These flag hot starts and other out Below FL 180, the aircraft tends to become more stable, but the phugoid instability is still obvious, and with each oscillation it becomes worse. The fuel system can be monitored through several gauges on the instrument panel through a dual needle type fuel quantity indicator, two fuel flow gauges, and two fuel pressure gauges. My retirement account is a shadow of its former self. He writes about his enthusiasm for both the machines and the people who fly and maintain them. 1C::_DbFgQPF:y$mtC1EwBR}Ui`*DQh&KSPm{hnh'ZSO,4E=Tg:v(Npx.:I'=. 8 answers and 5413 views Jun 15 2004. Even at that, parts are an issue for me. Although becoming an Earth-rounder has been postponed by the COVID-19 crisis, we are looking forward to completing the mission in a post-pandemic world. This is better than the Extra 300s 6.3 pounds/horsepower and the 7.3 pounds/horsepower of the spirited Beechcraft King Air F90. Therefore, every Cheyenne I or II pilot I know carries either 75 or 100 pounds of lead weights in the nose to keep the plane from sitting on its tailskid and to keep it within the legal center-of-gravity envelope. Their advice is dont do anything yet. 1. We can fit our family and dog, or two couples, in it and go places in comfort and style. When I am not working, eating or sleeping, you can find me there. They arent. The lower maximum power of the I together with a narrower cg range, climb power limits and the forward bias of loading equations in the IIXL because of the stretch forward of the leading edge as well as an aft cg limit that is also two inches forward of the limit in the original Cheyenne make longitudinal stability and pitch performance satisfactory without artificial aids. The interior was upgraded and the instrument panel was redesigned, including a lower glare shield to improve visibility. The available power of 620 SHP is too much for the configuration of the Cheyenne with loading toward the aft range. Search more Piper airplanes on Hangar67. It pays to experiment (but dont judge the affects just by the pilots reaction. PIPER CHEYENNE SERIES For Sale - Used & New 1 - 8 - Trade-A-Plane As you were browsing something about your browser made us think you were a bot. mwP:5L6r+,I-$X2ijbj)Q]B3ZFTV_ e V'&xT$,lFR/oFN`rX\Kil! W7 }/T]ip'Dl~ They can be awful tempting given the low purchase price, but they are priced that low for a reason. How about a young-engine Cheyenne II with its stability augmentation system that makes buyers be wary? 0000012267 00000 n Cheyenne 400LS for sale - Omni Jet Requirement is for 1600nm IFR range with 2 pilots and 1100lbs of payload. The massive Dowty-Rotol composite propellers are expensive and have only eight inches of ground clearance, leading to erosion problems. The cheapest B models seem to hover around $1.4 million. All provide reasonable comfort for average and even slightly longer or wider people. This thread reminds me of the day that I decided to buy a Huey. A IA was the last airplane built at Pipers Lock Haven plant. It is derived directly from the Cheyenne III series, but utilizes the far more powerful TPE331 engines with four-blade propellers which produce significantly faster airspeeds than its predecessors. 0000022600 00000 n 0000186693 00000 n We have a former MU2 owner on this forum. This is an invitation to disaster, because it can easily put weight too far aft. The early Cheyennes were later refined with some aerodynamic improvements, but the PT6-28s produced only 10 to 15 percent faster cruise speed than their piston siblings and at a much higher fuel consumption. [3], Due to its top speed over 400 mph, it was renamed the Cheyenne 400LS when Lear Siegler owned Piper, then the Cheyenne 400. Gear Up: Time to Pay for the Piper - FLYING Magazine 1985 PIPER CHEYENNE 400LS Turboprop Aircraft Price: USD $1,300,000 Aircraft Location: Stockton, California Serial Number: 425527026 Registration #: N142LS Total Time: 2,415 Number of Seats: 9 Number of Blades: 4 Airframe Notes: Registration: N142LS (FKA JA8853) to be U.S. registered shortly Serial Number: 425527026 Ai. %PDF-1.4 % 0000179961 00000 n The fuselage is limited to a 15,000-hour life, while the wing and empennage have 20,000-hour life limits.[3]. The IIXL is also the most versatile load-hauler of the all the early Cheyennes. An A version, with improved nacelles, was in development when Lock Haven was shut down. Unfortunately, only about 45 were made, making it a rare hot rod indeed. It can hold 3,819lb (1,732kg) of fuel plus two passengers with baggage, while each extra passenger costs 100nmi (190km) of range. The majority of the Cheyenne 400LS aircraft were fitted with nine seats, including a potty seat that can be completely enclosed by an accordion door neatly hidden in its furniture cabinet. Ive known him for several years. Start your free trial today! Oh, my, would I love one. Flight-Resource.com For other products 800-544-8594 www.McFarlaneAviation.com Created Date 2/22/2020 11:54:35 AM The in-flight shut down and premature removal rates of the PWC PT6 engine family is impressive. Registration #: N142LS. The plane must be flown within its loading envelope or there can be big trouble for the occupants. I remember reading a Richard Collins column years ago in which he described the number of yellow legal pads he used up while deciding on the Cessna P210 he ultimately bought and flew for 8,000 hours. There were 82 -31T2s manufactured between 1981 and 1984 (although there are two listed as 1985 models, they were built the previous year). of the manual under: 'Tips for operators'. Flight test - Piper Cheyenne 400LS - PlaneCheck What could. Magginetti notes: comparing the Cheyenne to other turboprops in its class (it) compares wellmaintenance costs are equal or less than that of the King Air, Conquest or Fairchild Merlins. As a result, the passengers either froze or cooked, and there never seemed to be a good fix for that. In ground handling and during cross-wind operations it is especially troublesome, since it fights the desired control inputs. 0000042969 00000 n Wing span (metric) 14.50 m. Length (metric) 13.20 m. Height (metric) 5.20 m. Powerplant. AGREE! In general, Piper Cheyenne 400LS (Pa42) - Mullers Indeed, the 1980 Cheyenne, which was The first Piper Cheyenne was flown in 1969 by essentially hanging two PT6 turbine engines on the Mojave. In 1975, he acknowledged many shortcomings and promised major improvements would take place in quality control and customer support. That, together with the obvious success of the Beech King Air and the troublesome big Lycomings on the P-Navajo, undoubtedly was a factor in the decision to develop a pressurized turboprop. Still, thats a lot more money than overhauling the engines on our airplane. Thats about 13 months away, given our average yearly flying. startxref The TBM is smaller than the Cheyenne and has no potty, but you get there so quickly, Im sure I can hold on long enough. No airplane in this category should be considered a weekend toy. Major design revisions were made, and in October 1969 the prototype PA-31T-essentially a PA-31P with turboshaft engines-flew. Pratt & Whitney and several of the companies that specialize in PT6 maintenance have field service reps who would be delighted to get you started on your support education. Guess what? The starter-generators are 1,000-hour scheduled maintenance events. 0000012901 00000 n That is a fair description of the original Cheyenne. Full flap speed is 148. also included. blowing straight down the large tailpipe makes it harder for the heat to The original version of the SAS addressed this problem, but the bugaboo of dynamic stability remained. the company would, completely out of character, do something either A lot of early buyers liked the high climb rate and comparatively good short field performance in addition to its high cruise speeds. One additional factor I believe to be absolutely necessary is that pilots flying the Cheyenne should attend the Flight Safety school on the Cheyenne on a recurrent basis. Three old outdated airframes that are very expensive to operate and maintain. [3], Flat rated to ISA+37, the turboprops maintain their power to almost 20,000ft (6,100m). They should be in maintenance costs, as well, so long as they are properly operated and maintained. The Navajo is arguably one of the best cabin-class twins, but its airframe was designed for 300-HP piston engines, not turbines that are both far more powerful and much lighter. The value of our Cheyenne is almost down to the run out price, so the next year is essentially free. The 400LS provides its owner with jet-like climb and cruise performance, along with turboprop efficiency and the ability to use numerous smaller airports that the jets cant. A 900 nm flight from Northern Virginia to South Florida typically takes about 2 hours and 45 minutes. This presents no problem, but I can see how an inexperienced pilot could find himself a trifle overwhelmed by either the extra speed or the oscillations. But it was too late to start the Cheyenne from scratch. the PA-42 - essentially a turboprop-powered Navajo. This in turn causes a steep pull-up at the bottom of the oscillation, resulting in a steeper climb and lower speed at the top, which means a higher angle of attack, which means a sharper pull by the SASand so on. Even if your insurance company were willing to let you get away without top notch training, you should get it. With its 351-knot max cruise speed, efficient Garrett engines, fastest climb rate in its class, FL410 service ceiling, long range and short/unimproved runway capability, the rare Piper Cheyenne 400LS can still outperform many turboprops and light jets in various phases of flight and missions. It can operate out of 3,000ft (900m) runways with a 97kn (180km/h) minimum control speed, similar to a King Air 300; it can operate from much shorter hot and high runways than a Citation I and landing is shortened by the rotating speedbrake effect of the propellers in beta pitch. Browse a wide selection of new and used PIPER CHEYENNE Aircraft for sale near you at Controller.com, the leading aircraft marketplace. The aircraft I believe they only built 44 of them. compresses and clearance decreases. The airplane is approved for day and night VFR/IFR operations when equipped in accordance with F.A.R. Apparently, any Even if misuse or abuse of a system or poor procedures dont lead to an incident or accident, improper operation can easily lead to unserviceability and increased maintenance cost. Piper used panel mounted King Silver Crown avionics in the I, a departure from tradition to achieve the price objective. ADCAAAv3X23,ft0>!A ,/dtD'0` lC$hPgso25M```-'AAy6cl 33f\5Q[7nlSzRNL`@%#K .2, Y7o Frequently it would fail to light up during climbout or at cruising altitudes. Ill never regret being responsible for her stewardship but I dont miss maintenance costs. The PA-31T finally was certified in May 1972. Swearingen to develop the Twin Comanche. With 24 volts required, the pumps are The trick, as always, is to find the airplane that offers the most features for the money, fits typical mission requirements, and hits a prospective owners emotional hot buttons. The potential danger is obvious. It isnt any different from any other sophisticated collection of systems and sometimes conflicting elements. Aircraft Location: Stockton, California. Vents for the fuel system are NACA type, anti-icing, non-siphoning vents which incorporate flame arrestors. The IIXL is the winner in terms of payload/range and loading envelope. Upon arrival at our home airport (KJYO), it was love at first sight. Back in Taxiing is straightforward and with the checks 1985 Piper Cheyenne 400LS for sale - hangar67.com Should we pay to overhaul the engines? But good looks, affordability, and ease of maintenance are just as important. 0000093388 00000 n The SAS is essentially an addition to the flight controls that is supposed to overcome the poor static stability of the original airplane. Serial #: 42-5527036. And archaic autopilots can represent in-flight hazards if they are not meticulously maintained and rigged. had the aircraft off the runway and heading up at an amazing rate of climb. Price: USD $1,300,000. https://www.trade-a-plane.com/searc&model=24E&listing_id=2394659&s-type=aircraft, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. My most trusted advisor is Bill Turley, a friend for 25 years and owner of our maintenance base, Aircraft Engineering in Bartow, Florida. 0000005105 00000 n 0000068591 00000 n Magginetti mentions cabin heaters, torque indicating systems and the PA-31Ts SAS as systems that require higher than average attention. A further, operational change was mandated for the PA-31T when Piper applied to increase the maximum operating altitude from 29,000 to 31,000 feet. hb``e`R I test flew two Cheyenne 400LSs and loved them. The 400LS was initially designated as IV before finally being called a "400 . Holding the column with my left hand, I tried a gentle turn and was However, as speed built up, so lateral stability improved and we were very Photo date: 2022-04-23. The oil is going out the breather tube, and the evidence is all over the underside of the right wing. He writes that his facility currently supports about 20 Cheyennes along with a number of other turboprops. Its power-to-weight ratio of 6 lbs/hp allows for a climb rate of 3,200 feet per minute and a cruise speed of 350 knots. The eighth seat sits partly in front of the door and partly in the rear cabin baggage compartment. Earlier versions of the original Cheyenne have some marginal systems and marginal arrangements of the myriad bits and pieces combined with human factors oversights such as poor and poorly located systems controls and inadequate cockpit lighting. At altitude, you can pull the miserly Garrretts back to about 400 lbs (60 gallons) per hour for long-range cruise. Trim must be run to fully nose up during the final approach and then conscious effort made to put in sufficient, gradual up elevator (gradual to keep from ballooning) to touch down on the main gear. The reason for this Record HolderWith its six-pound weight to horsepower ratio, well in excess of the Extra 300 competition acrobatic plane, General Chuck Yeager set the time to climb record in the 400LS in the mid-1980s. The toughest aspect of maneuvering in the traffic pattern in pre-1980 Cheyennes is the restricted visibility. But the Cheyennes character with the original SAS led to a wildly divergent oscillation, in the words of a former Piper test pilot. Early versions tend to be dark and cramped. Later models were offered with an optional cargo door to make it easier to load the after compartment. We knew they were coming and prepared for them. Our problem is that the right engine from day one has periodically and suddenly lost two or three quarts of oil. So here is a brief scorecard. 1 answers and 1796 views Feb 23 2020. Initial rate of climb was about 6,000 feet per minute at the light weight used for the record flight. We looked the records for a representative five-year period, during which a total of 187 service difficulty reports (SDRs) were submitted on the PA-31T series, including the PA-31T3/T-1040. This reason they stop mfg chevenne 400Ls turboprop aor craft too. This seems like a time for study, contemplation, analysis and thoughtful decision-making. So the SAS allowed the airplane to meet the letter of the law, but that didnt produce an airplane with desirable handling qualities. 0000093310 00000 n You've disabled cookies in your web browser. In October of 2019, with four occupants, we traveled through Canada, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland, Italy and back to Leesburg. The Cheyenne I was certified in March, 1978. As with the Cheyenne I, there is no stability augmentation system. Sure, you burn 17 gallons more per hour, but you get there before you have time to worry about fuel reserves. 0000042546 00000 n More powerful and faster airliner development of PA-42-720 Cheyenne 3.
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